Nobel Minds 2017

howdy i'm Xena however are we welcome to the concert corridor right here in Stockholm wherein this yr's Nobel laureates receive their awards from His Majesty the King of Sweden for their great contributions to literature economics and technological know-how this is the first time that they have been added collectively in dialogue on television and we're also joined in the audience by means of some of their circle of relatives and pals who traveled right here to be with them in addition to college students from Sweden welcome to this 12 months's noble minds [Music] Nobel laureates welcome to you all and congratulations you may need your Nobel Prizes due to the fact you realize you're these very rational logical beings or you've got terrific clarity of concept in your novels and for your economic work and so forth so do you genuinely act very rationally with amazing logic for your personal lives normally you are now not consuming which is Hendersons so sure you manifestly do yes I a hundred percentage rational however very very on occasion we should step out of doors that circle so the one little reminiscence i have is a new piece of equipment that was being developed we simplest had get admission to to it earlier than eight a.m. come in very early to try to use it I couldn't get it to work I tried the whole thing unplugged this i am pleased that eventually I stated i will simply ought to go domestic however I had one final thing supply it a kick sprang into existence and there has been a free wire so all right well let's just see you i am gonna go spherical the desk you realize and just get a brief quip from all of you the Iraqi friend i was in an earthquake in Pasadena in 1970 it befell at 6 o'clock i used to be asleep I went immediately soar out of the bed and went to the to the rest room and flush the rest room without delay as a type of reflex certainly it's a reflex we were not lively O'Shea the third of the chemistry you already know the word falsification rationality of a systematic when you have an awesome idea you need to prove that it is inaccurate until you've got attempted everything and then you definately have confirmed the idea but i am very ill I try to expose that my identity is right I push a bit too far k Kip Thorne one of the physics laureates my greatest insights come within the midnight and i'm sleeping it's now not rational I don't know the way it occurs however my thoughts come what may irrationally throw those matters collectively i'm going write down notes in the lavatory wake up the subsequent morning and trust it or not a third of the time it's correct it's exact I have no idea where I got here from that sounds yeah serendipity I guess yeah rave ice you ever achieved whatever absolutely excellent a lot of irrational things I assume the most essential one changed into I fell in love at 19 went chasing a girl the Chicago and it changed into the stop of me I flunked out after which I in the end got lower back into that powerful yes again there may I flunked out of MIT and again after that I came and i were given a process and that job made my profession mm-hmm the schooling wasn't worth a damn oh nicely we will come back on to that form of subject matter later very parish any other of the physics laureates I have become a physicist and trip the irrational way changed into to decide not to be a chemist now not to be an engineer not to be a writer the remaining left become my freshman physics class Richard i am gonna leap depart you out just for a second so i'm able to come to you because we are gonna communicate about your monetary idea but the medicine laureates may young well so selecting to be a scientist is I won't say it's irrational but it does include a whole lot of hazard and i were given lots of advice from people that have been close to me when am I going to get a job when are you going to pick something that it is comprehensible to the outdoor phrase international that has a simple tune forward that you could make certain to guide your self and such in this sort of manner so there's a totally there may be a completely essential thing there's an emotional issue in deciding on to take dangers and become a scientist mmm Michael Ross fascism so so i'd say in in order and having a self-destructive temper as a young character it's no longer very rational being a sports fan isn't very rational and and then the idea of risk-taking is actually has a deep organic foundation however of direction people like taking risks and and that has an upside of direction as Mike mentioned however it's also it also may be unfavourable you appear very benign now you have misplaced the time period have you the self-unfavorable tenant i am most of the time below control we are at development Jeffrey had paintings at RIT paintings in progress however if I handsome fellow to my right and that i work collectively his name escapes me we we got here up a number of times with labored portions of negative aisle public behavior we notion our stunts were hilarious i am not positive that everyone else and our mitts did do however we could not help herself all proper k nicely Cassie we need to develop our literature laureate they've in no way finished anything i am completely crazy that you not loopy however I bet my spouse and that i we have a massive series of smooth toys which we fake still belong to our daughter the 25 we've got voices for all of them and that they have whole sort of non-public histories and relationships among them have histories I bet it's verging at the irrational perhaps however I think it's flawlessly reasonable all right k nicely I introduced up this Odyssey of irrational as opposed to rational conduct because you wealthy the sailor won the Nobel Prize to your work in behavioral economics which clearly says that you understand mainstream economics did not get it right that people individuals families don't act in a rational manner in terms of taking economic decisions or certainly every other type of decision so just explain to us provide us an overview of what behavioral economics without a doubt is nicely behavioral economics is kind of just doing economics that would accommodate all the stories that we've got simply heard it became precipitated by way of a dinner party have been and a bowl of cashew nuts wasn't it oh well sure I removed a bowl of cashew nuts that it changed into a dick ting dinner party and once I came again all people thanked me for removing those bowl of cashew nuts however then because it was a set of economists we commenced to surprise how it become that we may be happy for the reason that an axiom of economics is more selections are constantly higher than less so yeah that became my Apple thanks for putting off the bowl of cashew because they didn't need to eat anymore and that they had plenty more colored if the ball had been there they could have continued and Richard I imply a number of human beings have targeted on just one component of your work which is that this idea of lunch and you wrote a e book of path with Cass Sunstein coordinate and it is approximately how humans may be nudged into making higher decisions and David Cameron former British prime minister set up a nudge unit and certainly many many different nations followed match so just provide us an idea how does no longer absolutely paintings what does it attempt to got down to do nicely nudge takes into attention what our biases are after which attempts to introduce small functions of the environment that will alter them so for instance think we're involved that this display would possibly run over then thankfully I set my telephone for the quantity of time we're speculated to achieve this while it starts beeping we'll notice and and we might not worry about the hazard of going for walks over so that's the I imply there's some humans thanks i get the message you've got cautioned governments on nudging trying to get regulations that as an example will get younger human beings like the students we've got came inside the target audience simply store up for their vintage-age pensions and to try and get humans to take selections that are in their self-hobby primarily based on the fact that humans do not always accomplish that however are we able to certainly leave it to politicians and policy makers and their advisors along with yourself to certainly nudge someone into into doing something like that suggest is not it manipulation in a few methods properly the the actual point is that we haven't any preference so there is no opportunity to nudging the best alternative is bad magic gentlemen I suggest what do you consider behavioral economics and particularly this thing of it which is you already know the idea of nudge might some of you like to be nudged or had been nudged into doing something that prevented reckless conduct yeah I want to know if the society and there's some thing exceptional i wonder how you consider this I mean we teach the incorrect sort of math to our kids yeah oh you trust that I suggest as an example I mean in case you need to nudge me or into a positive factor i'd like to recognize the odds proper and we do not know how to make art in high college or grade faculty i'd teach it with the aid of having them gamble Yeah proper so that what people understand lethal extreme what you need a country of gamblers nuts now not no no you spot yeah there are you leap too speedy yeah I do not try this k no no the idea changed into used as a mechanism to research the arithmetic and the questioning that goes with probabilistic reasoning proper Jeff corridor you're one of the three laureates for the prize in medicinal drug or body structure and speakme about as I say you know the psychological aspects of economics and in behavioral economics and the way the mind works and the impact it'd have on economics but you you received your prize for what makes the frame tick our frame clock Jeff why don't you simply perhaps spell out for us what we imply through our body clock there are numerous sorts of found out daily rhythms that can be observed and measured rhythms but there is long-standing information from reading an entire variety of various forms of organisms that these revealed rhythms are underpinned with the aid of biological clocks Michael Ross fashion and Mike younger via your research on on fruit flies we observed that we've those body clocks you realize we humors as well as all different animals and you have you find out that with the aid of our keeping apart genes in in fruit flies in fact I think the fruit fly is featured in such a lot of Nobel Prize experiments it deserves its very own little little Nobel Prize would not you are saying a little prize see the little aspect yes Mike younger after you find out the additives of these clocks you could search for them all over the organism and as Jeff and his colleagues showed in Drosophila you locate unique parts of the earth the fruit fly the fruit fly you've got you have got many one of a kind body parts that show those rhythms the use of those clocks so it's not simply behavior it is many elements of body structure the the opposite element that became clean was that you could start with the genes that we observed within the fruit fly and lo and behold you've got loved ones in all of the different individuals of the animal state together with us so are we able to ask questions that might assist shiftwork due to the fact you realize folks who paintings in the emergency offerings deal better with the sort of work that they have to do at night can it help us apprehend why infants don't sleep at some point of the night time I mean I usually discover that expression oh I sleep so nicely similar to a toddler ought to had been stated by someone who is never sorted a infant because we know they do not sleep at night time proper so I mean you know does your paintings help us understand these common studies well in many cases what it famous is there may be plenty greater complexity to what's wrong or what we assume we are staring at whilst a infant's not napping for example or take jetlag whilst we go from the big apple or Boston to on the Stockholm what is certainly happening maximum people suppose properly in a few days my one body clock will get to Stockholm and till then i'm going to be in a kingdom of malaise in fact what occurs is that due to the fact you have got clocks all over your body there's war of words that begins going on among the cells in extraordinary parts of your body about what time of day it is and so in reality at the end of a flight from new york to Stockholm for the next few days you truely occupy it your frame is occupying more than one time zones simultaneously depending on which clock you observe you watched that there's good and bad times at some stage in the day in which are we proper now [Laughter] so it depends it depends what that there may be there is instances wherein which are greater beneficial for a few matters than others yeah so I suppose what you are alluding to perhaps is that that is a very successful nap time as an instance for instance for example mainly for a gentleman or women are elderly round around this table in which in truth who had been up overdue closing night time were up very overdue that became whilst you acquired your duration all the festivities and so forth construe an astronaut that has no resetting mechanism additionally dude aren't the cabins my impact become that the the cabins have very severe like artificial like dark cycles to mimic to imitate the external quite primitive suicide if they didn't yeah although they did not in the event that they had been in steady darkness they might display these rhythms and and that is and in reality it truly is how they have been initially revealed in those fashions people regularly have a truth is that if you placed an organism into cycles which can be specific from a day like 7 hours 7 hours that sure organisms relying on the organism can synchronize yeah it truly is the occult cycles however in some unspecified time in the future you are so far faraway from 24 whilst you do those checks they snap we know here in Sweden simply lot of human beings do say they've those lighting that lamps that mimic daylight hours do not they due to the fact i have the sort of dark days but this time of yr but a number of your colleagues working at the frame clock have benefited from the paintings of our chemistry laureates due to route gentlemen you won your award for developing a method called cryo e/m which for the primary time captured pics of molecules that were no longer seen using general strategies and of path we understand that the world of molecules is is the core of what we name existence so Richard Anderson in a nutshell what's cryo a.m. I assume our our location of interest and understanding is the easiest to give an explanation for in this institution we basically freeze a thin movie of the molecules of lifestyles take a photograph of it and then you definately examine the photograph together with your eyes it is magnified and you could see all of the molecules the computer lets you interpret what they may be however the methodologies are the equipment that have been invented by using the others particularly Jacques Du Bois she mm-hmm very well properly we're going to go to shank to Basho then so this device that permits you to examine these molecules I mean its capability its opportunities of the way it can assist human enterprise cure illnesses we're physicists we labored in biology and we get the Nobel Prize in Chemistry don't confuse human beings please because because we see atoms with the help of those human beings and whilst we see atoms with do chemistry and chemistry is a very effective technology due to the fact when you have a organic object you spot how the atoms are interacting one with the alternative you see how alzheimer filaments are connected to each other perhaps you spot a drug which will separate them or will save you them to companion use anything with with with chemistry it is an incredible effective method however I mean inside the case of you realize what you want your prize for as an instance in the case of the Zika virus cryo PM turned into used to generate 3-d pics of the virus which supposed researchers ought to try to training session you already know what sort of tablets would assist to face up to the virus for instance I don't know if you need to select that up you are in truth the Zika virus is a really perfect illustration for the dis combined era that is now available so when we do understand the structure of it now it does not mean that we without delay discover a way of combating it seized however but it makes it viable so that they doubtlessly Richard Saylor yeah i used to be simply gonna say that this links up to the conversation we have been having a bit earlier which is whether desire structure or nudging is good or bad it just relies upon on who is using it so all the scientists right here have created information that may be used for excellent or evil this the equal is genuine for behavioral technology or behavioral economics and plenty of companies nudge for evil the remaining final night time my toast changed into to nudge for desirable and but it's a wish Richard Henderson I imply all of you have got worked you already know for many many years in your endeavors and that i suppose it turned into one chemist who stated you know miracles on occasion occur however you need to work terribly difficult I suggest it's part and parcel of the whole lot you do isn't always it failure is a component and parcel of that that you'll perform plenty and lots of experiments and assume many of them no longer to be successful yeah I think we're aiming to find out absolutely new things so if whilst you're deliberating an test in any region if the the selection which you make is near the know-how which you have already you then're probable to have a a success test but you won't have learned very a great deal so in case you make a larger soar take a bigger threat and then most of the time the experiments might have failed however whilst it succeeds you are making a bigger jump forward so I learned from Fred Sanger who had changed into had Nobel Prizes for his paintings in sequencing protein and DNA he used to mention that you have to aim for a completely excessive failure price my interpretation become ninety-9 percent failure rate however the one percentage that be successful takes you with a completely massive breakthrough that's really worth all the attempt you have spent on the opposite night i would say that leaves out one one essential component mainly for younger those who who like science and this is the dialogue of excessive chance high failure or very lofty dreams leaves out an element of expertise to our career in different phrases I suppose I think that the issue with you the chance of of having wonderful fulfillment is is very small for anybody individuals we are the we're the progeny we're the beneficiaries of also a whole lot of luck as well as tough work and possibly a tiny little bit of skills but the the truth is that maximum folks here love what we did hmm and so that incorporates you via disasters certain and you have to honestly love to do test interesting micro spoil because while you were young you were marked out as a capacity failure at school you have been very unruly through your own admission and you've got recognized each different I know for many many years for 30 years but you furthermore may attractive i will show you realize you say that you would simply pick out unwell at faculty and wealthy sailor you had been mildly dyslexic I suggest I think it's interesting that your route to this success is now worrying approximately the incorrect factor it's been you understand however it's just inspiring to people is not it listen concentrate to Michael he said something very profound and that is humans like to work on matters which might be fun which are a pleasure to paintings on it really is virtually fundamental none of us as a minimum I actually in my existence failed to suppose i am gonna win the Nobel Prize it was in no way in my mind it turned into no longer my life was not devoted to winning a prize my existence changed into committed I loved this component i used to be operating on it became a laugh i have my buddies with me we had a super time the entire assignment the LIGO venture isn't based on the reality that the oh god we fail we simply listen to me yeah I gotta listen to me that is vital due to the fact that destruction that ye stated it right and asking Oh Oh God failure failure failure it truly is now not the way you think ya realize the outcome is which you do things that you get a kick out of and thankfully from time to time they turn out to be essential sure however simply going again [Applause] that brings me to UM Kazu issue guru universally called ish who won the Nobel Prize for Literature and that i know that during your writing profession you have had a few 4 starts offevolved and works which you've discarded and began all over again however you recognize you're now among the the Giants of the world of literature you have written 8 novels and so a number of your your novels seem at the floor to be pretty specific you know set in exceptional countries and so on but there does seem to be a commonplace subject the relationship between the existing and the past might you are saying yes I mean the floor of my novels are form of misleading humans suppose I preserve transferring on reality is I hold writing the identical component time and again once more obsessively and those do not understand it due to the fact they've very one-of-a-kind settings but I suppose I perhaps there may be a parallel however see what the sort of manner I make progress within the kind of way that the men round this desk have carried out I around a few sort of piece of floor now and again if any person comes up with an concept or a subject it truly is somewhere available and i assume could that be brilliant for any person else but it is now not in this little aspect i'm i am closing in on i am digging away within the useless of night time you understand looking expecting to type of uncover something odd down there you stated the scientists around the table but you're interested by a discussion about science and one among your most well-known books in no way permit me move looks at scientific advances in a global it's kind of long past mad possibly setting in within the destiny in which society expects that each one illnesses can be constant and they don't want to show the clock returned to you know humans demise of most cancers and so forth is that something that genuinely worries you the misuse of science those are very essential matters I suppose for books films performs to deal with but that isn't basically what literature is for you comprehend it would not need to directly cope with those questions I think what literature does is permit us to understand each different throughout cultural obstacles linguistic barriers so that after we come to have the controversy about how we order our society what is critical we recognize how different people not manifestly like us sense maximum discoveries I think are edged blades and that is on the coronary heart of the Nobel metaphor if you like a person who invents dynamite that may do great matters and very detrimental things we ought to have a debate in society we ought to consider what we do with the exquisite breakthroughs rub down surrounds capacity the alternative manner to ensure that what we do is understood sufficient through the public it doesn't have to be exactly what we degree you already know this well-known hassle changed into the CP snow made this sort of fuss over and i suppose he had did quite a few harm with this is there this cross-fertilization of those who do science those who do music people who do arts that's got to head and it isn't always that I mean i might want to have for instance if in our united states proper now i would want to have the arts be able to know a bit more technology very bearish I recognise you're a remarkable fan of Kazuo Ishiguro's work what do you reflect onconsideration on this verbal exchange between science and artwork you wanted to be a novelist failed to you yeah i'm and that i suppose what i'm as I said I eliminated several professions and ended up in physics the earliest one turned into being a writer because I study all the time whilst i was a kid in case you write a singular on a threat by way of 100 thousand readers you are surely writing a hundred thousand novels that's why there's e-book clubs as it's no longer that all and sundry the guy subsequent to you does not read nicely it's that how that novel that's interpreted by way of them is different than how you interpret the radical so it is a first rate thing that you could write some thing that virtually is a hundred thousand tales I think and why the movies never as desirable as the e-book due to the fact the film does too much it does not in reality have the identical partnership it truly is my view did you want the film of your e book never let me pass sure and that i loved the film of the stays of the day I don't myself make a big I don't disagree with you however you realize I I assume all the art paperwork have their unique powers you already know certain there are matters that I cannot do that the filmmakers can do very thoroughly and vice versa I just visit you i can Frank due to the fact I recognise which you are a writer you have written quick testimonies that have been published and you've got a novel which has been unpublished approximately an astrophysicist at a college that it might get published now which you are a Nobel laureate listening allow him know thank you for the plug well for me the English language have become a medium of reinventing myself absolutely I suggest it turned into a very challenging thing and and whilst i discovered it I ought to write talk and got some thing across there has been an top notch experience to me i'm i am pronouncing it's type of daunted by using the idea i am sitting next to him laureate in literature and speakme approximately my little little manufacturing nicely a small factor about that during form of in the interest of younger scientists and which is I suppose a variety of young scientists do not pay any interest to the writing I don't suggest writing a singular properly when you do research the stop product is some thing written and till you have written it down you have not completed whatever that concerns me as nicely you realize very plenty however you just say as anyone from the world of the humanities there seems to be a few kind of disconnect with together with your exceptional discoveries and your breakthroughs and and then what the relaxation of society gets preoccupied approximately and in famous culture and famous debate it seems to me we the sector the Western world anyway is very well organized for a zombie attack on our essential cities but we do not appear to be addressing you know the way we reorganize our societies as a result of a number of the spectacular breakthroughs which might be being made in science and era one particular aspect of technological know-how which surely has captured the general public imagination famous creativeness of direction is the arena of technology fiction I come to the physics laureates because you received your prize for the observation of gravitational waves it turned into the first time that a passing gravitational wave has been observed at once on the earth that you know big medical sensations so Kip Thorne why don't you simply encapsulate for us what this became all approximately so a black hollow is something that each toddler knows from comic books however a black hollow is a round hole in area that has such intense gravity that nothing can get out now not even light and what we determined become that 1.3 billion years ago in a galaxy a ways a ways away two black holes rotated round and round each different spiraling collectively as they emitted these gravitational waves dropping electricity to the gravitational waves the holes came crashing together at half the velocity of light and they created a veritable storm within the form of area and time time bogged down then accelerated ocellated whilst if you can believe time they're speeding up and slowing down relative to how time flows right here and that method produced these waves wherein area is stretched and squeezed stretched and squeezed that travelled across interstellar space intergalactic area to the earth and were captured by way of the or monitored by means of the gadgets had been constructed by means of the experimental group that i am associated with this is an entire new manner to have a look at the universe to look at factors of the universe that we've got never visible before it's a manner by means of which we will in due route watch the delivery of the universe and for the primary time simply come to understand via a aggregate of this with a theory the birth of the universe ray and Barry I mean what kind of it is a window on the arena or on our universe what kind of factors might we find out approximately our universe that we don't know now Barry we've labored for many years developing an instrument just like we heard the chemists talk about this simply astounding I suggest I cannot believe that we should do what we could do except that we learned very early which you couldn't prove that we could not do it so we saved making steps and as I think Ray stated in advance people preserve asking us how may want to we live at this goodbye patience no it became actually a lot of amusing because we've broken new floor all of the time a good deal as you've got without perhaps making a discovery but just experimentally pass further than people have before black holes of direction definitely are very a great deal the stuff of technological know-how fiction movies Kip Thorne you a systematic adviser and govt producer of one such film interstellar how important is it for you do you suspect that science fiction need to actually pays based on fact there is no necessity there are extraordinary genres of technology fiction and my associate in Hollywood Linda opes who collectively with me wrote the remedy from which interstellar spraying she calls this technology faction by using comparison with technology fantasy Harry Potter is technology fantasy interstellar science faction however the splendor of this for me is that a movie like this in which the science is embedded in right from the start it's able to inspiring people about science how else should I as a professor succeed in presenting a few notion for one hundred million humans except you experience like this one one precise thing that you know quite a few people sort of like to recognize about in technology fiction stories are there other universes available parallel universes I mean could your paintings in any way assist us find out whether there are certainly different universes Barry well it would there is specific we do not if we had an smooth and straightforward check to peer there has been this concept changed into right we would possibly be going after it there may be diverse methods that we would get clues whether or not it is proper and some of them are thru the type of paintings we are doing it is now not very direct it's one of the ideas that sort of Springs from what we don't know about the early universe so discussing here you realize the fulfillment of movies like interstellar and science-fiction - contradictions there you might say I imply how importance of simply considering this trouble you know in fashionable phrases do you watched that evidence based totally discourse is in our societies nowadays allow me get a view from all of you in this particular issue possibly you first Jeff or humans don't know much about technology and technology they electricity a miracle for instance each day matters that never existed centuries ago and now we are taking for granted the right American in the u.s.a. is not most effective ignorant but is actively belligerently pugnaciously lack of understanding are you sick I refuse depart or i am secular humanists I say who thinks that there are these irrational influences and that you will searching for the triumph of reason inside the face of all this Michael Ross passion a variety of this has to do with with instructional landscape we have visible instances maximum starkly inside the US however but in Western Europe as properly where politicians bold humans take advantage of the situation to make the most for their own benefit for energy benefit of power it is not some thing it truly is unheard of passed off inside the twentieth century to disastrous to disastrous ends and so it's it's it is a totally worrisome it is very worrisome concept Mike young you may have an mindset which you're no longer interested in technological know-how and also you do not can not gain from technology those wouldn't exist if there hadn't been found 50 years ago that invented the technology if you get just about each minute of the day each person depends on some form of technology so that the perception that it is over or we've got sufficient or it by no means befell or it in no way occurred that this is logo-new and constituted of whole material is is such an super mistake richard thaler we have a truth unfastened management in the u.s. disturbing about technology it'd be nice if there was there have been scientists inside the administration i would accept some individuals who are accumulating information right but Barry it is interesting we you know speak approximately we've got heard and technology bias from from Jeff hall as an instance but you are like oh assignment for the statement of those gravitational waves do you think that sort of assist might manifest nowadays for something like we did yeah well i'm involved no longer now not you can not do science and pass ahead without taking risks yet we have a gadget this is come to be increasingly conservative I for my part understanding the investment state of affairs pretty properly inside the u.s. thru the country wide technological know-how basis don't accept as true with that right now you can fund something that changed into equivalent we as scientists have a job it is now not simply that we we've a task to make what we do extra intelligible to people I think that it really is why I mean Kip's film is an critical aspect I assume you furthermore may have to cross and talk to folks that are not at college degrees you've got to talk to highschool children and grade faculty kids yeah I agree completely with with Ray in this and i think the only key thing i'd like to emphasize is the significance that the majority that most people of the populace in a democracy mainly understands how science works understands its powers its barriers jacques de poche the commentary by mister ichigo ho that it would be easy to develop and make awesome a tale about zombies approaching us and wreck the whole lot clean but why is it so hard why does it paintings to make a horrible story about our climate going off target going approximately as awful as the zombie in the world why can not we make a story of that well you're working Frank we talked before about the the problem of getting technology even throughout to the general public and that there aren't any current forums and you understand the hassle is we've a majority of these forums the media within the media you understand chop everything into pieces and and those are completely incapable of getting a few sort of a coherent story out of this Richard Henderson do you believe you studied that the role of the scientists is to explain their technological know-how to society but also beyond that to surely say we need to raise the extent of knowledge based totally comments and debates i am absolutely with with you on that actually I assume scientists are i'm an optimist approximately this entire discussion I assume scientists mainly should be optimists you could not have labored for 50 years to to search for gravitational waves without being an optimist to distinguish among rational irrational reality and fiction better training I assume is the answer simply and lots of people need better training for their kids some of them take their children out of faculty to give them a higher education of home some human beings take them out of faculty to keep away from it exactly so we need to improve the overall to indoctrinate yeah some thing higher training is the lowest line however what it is ish you have inside the beyond 30 s I imply you are sitting with scientists human beings address statistics however you're going to make a plea for also fiction has a place in in society manifestly we love studying works of fiction fiction tradition I imply I think one of the problems is that the business model behind the media and journalism and reporting is currently broken the traditional ways in which newspapers and periodicals used to unfold expertise and debate and they were rewarded for via-and-large for accuracy is gone what's essential in the meanwhile is that it's miles eyeballs on web sites clips you already know that there isn't a great financial economically viable commercial enterprise model with the aid of which we are able to have these debates because human beings are pushed by means of by means of the reality that you have to get maximize the quantity of clicks on the internet site proper nicely i am hoping you've got found nicely i'm hoping you may make an honorable exception of this application at least and which you have had the risk to interact with those notable minds as well as adding your outstanding mind to our our debate right here our discussion I think all of us has located within the audience and past the whole lot that you've stated truely genuinely and fascinating i've truly loved speaking to all of you thank you to all our Nobel laureates to our target market right here in Stockholm at the live performance hall from me Zainab Badawi and all of this on the noble minds team thank you very lots certainly for looking goodbye